The Lightning Project

The ongoing saga of the PNG Lightning Maroon Clownfish Breeding Project

Browsing Posts tagged Mike Doty

There are pretty crappy images, but they are the offspring of the MD1 X MD2 Lightning X White Stripe pair.

Wholesale customers have access to these fish at this time.

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First up, housekeeping.  I’ve been lax on recording spawn dates because these days, since I’m not actively rearing fishes until the fishroom rework is done, the info just doesn’t REALLY matter all that much.  Still, might as well record them.

For the original wild Lightning X White Stripe pair, their most recent spawn was Sunday, September 20th (#64).  That was proceeded by Monday, September 7th (#63). They had earlier spawns on August 1st (#61), and August 26th (#62) if my memory and documentation serves correctly.

For the F1 Lightning X Lightning pair, their most recent spawn was now Friday, October 30th, 2015 (#23). Before was Monday, 10/19/2015 (#22); prior was Thursday, 9/24/2015 (#21). Before that, 9/15/2015 (#20). Prior was Sunday, Sept. 6th (#19). Earlier spawns were August 1st (#17), and August 21st (#18).

Finally, Mike’s holdback pair is producing; parents are MD1 and MD2.  Mike HAS been rearing, so we have a lot of F2 Lightnings and White Stripes which for the moment are becoming available through my livestock wholesaler.  Ask for more info (retailers, wholesalers only please).

This is the 8th spawn from the F1 Lightning X Lightning pair, and unlike all prior small nests, this is a nice tight half dollar sized group; at least a few hundred eggs.  And it’s the 2nd nest on a tile.  FINALLY, we might be getting somewhere.  The nest was spawned on the late evening of Wednesday, March 18th, 2015.

In other news, Spawn #50 for the wild lightning pair hasn’t gone so well…most of the eggs are gone, presumed eaten.  It was a much bigger nest..but looks like it’s still not working out right.  I also received word on 3/18 that the Great Lakes Aquarium’s pair was sitting on a 6 day old nest.  Additionally, Mike Doty’s pair spawned again!  I wonder who else has fish spawning for them now?

Last week was a flurry of clownfish sex.  March 4th, at 7 AM, I got a text image of the Lightning Maroon clownfish pair on display at the Great Lakes Aquarium; a small next was on the tank wall (I’m guessing laid on March 3rd?). This wasn’t the first spawn out of the pair; another had been seen, and evidence of prior spawns was also observable when the first spawn was discovered.

Mike Doty’s pair ALSO spawned; he shot me a text just a few hours later (10:30 AM) on March 4th as well.  I’m guessing they too spawned on the 3rd.  On the evening of March 5th, I found that the Nebula percula pair in my basement had spawned, and Friday, March 6th, the recently reunited Lightning X Lightning pair had thrown down their first nest as well; it’s a tiny nest, but it is viable.

It’s interesting how much of this breeding activity centered around the full moon.

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Surprised to hear that tonight, Mike Doty’s pair of Lightning Maroon Clownfish had thrown down eggs. This is one of the freely distributed “genetic repository” pairs I placed locally, just in case anything ever happened here at home.

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The female Lightning Maroon, MD1, and male Morse Code Maroon, MD2, represent the first F1 sibling pair that I am aware of which should replicate the pairing of their parents. We already know of the results Soren Hansen had when pairing an F1 Lightning Maroon Clownfish with a wild White Stripe Maroon; I expect that Mike will see a 50/50 White Stripe/Lightning spread in the F2 generation from Mike’s parents.

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Here’s a quick rundown.

The 5th spawn of the F1 Lightning X Lightning Maroon Clownfish pairing was collected and hatched by Mike Doty while I was away.  In short, he scraped off the eggs, hatched them in a 1 gallon jar in a water bath with simple aeration, 75% clean new water.  Come November 28th, Mike relayed that settlement had started.  The moment we’ve been waiting for was here – is there something new?

Well, Mike’s first words were “About 90% sure we have some normal striped fish.”

This, of course, does the following:

  • likely rules out Lightning as a simple recessive gene. If it WAS recessive, then both parents would be “double dose” aka. homozygous, represented as l/l, which means that each parent could only contribute a recessive lightning gene, and thus, each offspring would also get one copy each, one from mom, one from dad, and thus, could only be l/l as well. For the moment, while another couple test matings will bolster the data, the fact that there are white-stripe offspring pretty much precludes this being a standard single allele, single locus, recessive trait.
  • does not rule out straight dominance. If it was straight dominance, and each parent is “single dose” aka. heterozygous, represented as L/+, then 25% of the offspring would not get a gene from either parent, and thus, 25% would be white stripe maroon clownfish.
  • nor does it rule out partial dominance. This of course, would work the same way as dominance, except that 25% of the offspring would get a lightning gene from EACH parent, and would be homozygous for Lightning, represented as L/L. This is the scenario that most people are hoping for, because with the new homozygous state, there comes the potential for a new phenotype that could be different from the Lightning that we know.

As of today, 12-8-2014, I spoke with Mike briefly and have to relay this news – while he doesn’t have many babies left, he believes that the phenotype split is roughly 50/50.  That is to say, half white stripes, half lightnings.  So far, he also has not seen anything unique or new in this F2 generation.  I have yet to see the babies for myself, and have yet to take pictures or do a headcount, but these cursory, informal results, mirror another clownfish mutation that seems to not fit the mold as we’d expect – SNOWFLAKE in Ocellaris.  It’s my hope to get over to Mike’s today yet to see for myself.

In other news, the 6th spawn of the F1 Lightning X Lightning pair was put down on 11/29/2014. It appears I finally won the battle of the tiles:

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Meanwhile, I brought some new clownfish into the fishroom earlier in November (the 19th and 22nd) and was trying out the new Ick-Shield food from New Life Spectrum.  This is basically a Chloroquin-laced pellet food that is meant primarily to prevent disease such as Crytopcaryon, Amyloodium, Brooklynella etc…pretty much the things which are sensitive to the active ingredient. I decided to not simply feed this fish to the new arrivals, but also to feed it to one of my holding systems AND the wild Lightning Maroon and her mate as preventative medication, just in case.

Well, it turns out that there is an unfortunate side effect to this feed; it seems to shut down breeding activity.  All my routine pairs stopped spawning. The Lightning and her mate did finally put down a spawn on December 1st, 2014, #46.

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Unfortunately, it appears as though the spawn was not fertilized…the eggs didn’t develop, and after 48 hours they were gone. A few days after that, I read, anecdotally, that Chloroquin can cause male sterility??? Not permanent according to the rumor, but certainly a potential setback. As far as the efficacy of the food, my jury is out. The larger fish which were feeding well on it by and large remained disease free, but not all did.  I still had a Brooklynella outbreak, although not in the fish I would have necessarily expected. Once that outbreak started, it then affected other fish as well despite their feeding on the pellets.  I’m also seeing either Cryptocaryon or Amyloodium on fish which were visually “clean” upon arrival, which were in dedicated QT systems, feeding on this food from day one.  So the question here is were they simply getting ENOUGH feed as they were small fish which cannot readily eat the small pellet size.

So of course, one is left with questions, not answers.  There is no way to say the food didn’t work, nor is there any way to prove that it does work. Absence of disease is not proof of prevention, that much I know for certain. Lack of a cure, or lack of prevention, which IS documented, only raises questions about why it didn’t work as suggested and certainly requires investigation (eg. would a smaller pellet size be better accepted…could these failures stem from simply lack of feeding, or lack of sufficient feeding, thus insufficient dose to the fish?).

Circling back to LxL Spawn #6, as the week progressed an interesting change in behavior occurred starting around December 4th, 5 days post spawn.  The larger female F1 Lightning became belligerent towards the male, and over the day drove him from nest tending duties.  December 5th, a Friday, would have been 6 days post spawn, and the night of the first hatching.  I was simply swamped with preparations for sending our dog to live with my brother, and failed to pull the tile.  By morning, Saturday, December 6th, 2014, it appeared that I had not missed much…most if not all the eggs were still there. The pair remained at odds.  We left for the weekend to ship our family dog, and upon Sunday, December 7th, there were still a few dozen eggs remaining, although they appeared potentially dead and disappeared throughout the day.  By nightfall, the pair was starting to be less antagonistic, but I am still keeping a close eye on them.  Hopefully, we’ll get another spawn soon – this was the only mature pair in the house that didn’t receive Chloroquin-laced foods (as they don’t reside in the fishroom with the rest of the fish).

So much going on and I’m NOT doing a proper job of tracking things.

I should start with the unrelated F0 PNG White Stripe Maroon Clownfish pair…they spawned sometime last week, possibly Wednesday the 12th. I didn’t make much of a fuss about documentation of it because I knew I couldn’t deal with them at any rate; I can’t remember if it was very late Sunday night, or more likely Monday afternoon, when I found the last few eggs just sitting around in the tank.  This pair, overall, is spawning quite infrequently.

The Lightning Maroon Spawn, #44, never made it to hatching.  Something happened, and the pair consumed the eggs.  Could the Lightning foundation pair be winding down or did they just have a bad spawn?  Their prior spawn produced a good amount of juveniles, which were undergoing settlement and on TDO A by last Thursday, which is when I drained them down to about a gallon, filled with clean new aged saltwater, and then turned them on to the larviculture system.

LxL spawn #4 was one I was going to let go because I wasn’t in town (I was off speaking at the Milwaukee Aquarium Society’s “Fish Bowl” event), but in short, Mike Doty decided to play with harvesting the eggs.  He took approximately 25% of the next out, using my little egg siphon, on Friday night (Nov. 14th).  I got a text while in Milwaukee…there was a hatch..and a big one.  Surprisingly, he simply did it in a 1 gallon olive jar with an air feed, sitting in a water bath with probably 75% new water.  If I had done that, every last egg would have been dead.  All credit where it’s due – Mike may well in fact rear Lightning X Lightning offspring before I do (they’re at HIS fishroom ;) )  Mike further relayed that this was a split hatch, with more eggs present Saturday the 15th, but all gone by 4 AM Sunday morning.

Yesterday, I caught wind that the F1 Lightning X Lightning pair was going to spawn again…the female was roving the tank with her ovipositor down.  I did my best to FURTHER add tile to their tank, blocking their prior spawning spot off..which caused them to move to another side of the tank’s back wall, which I then blocked off with tile. They were still going through the motions of finding a spawning site when I turned the lights off after Midnight; technically they spawned in the overnight on the wee-early morning of 11-18-2014, but if I was to be thinking about these eggs properly, then normally they’d be a 11-17 spawn.  Ultimately, they selected the ONLY section of black plastic background that I cannot get tile on (near the tank’s filter return).  Either the nest was small, or they ate most of it, and I am considering foregoing working with it.  I’m thinking that what this pair may really need is a clay pot…that might be the ticket here.  So LxL Spawn #5 has been put down, but for now, probably will be left alone.

Yup, one of those quick little posts…9-29-2014, Lightning Maroon Spawn #41 was put down…and we’re back on the “slanted” tile instead of the vertical one.

And alongside, the loaner pair of A. melanopus from Mike Doty also spawned on 9-29 as well…time to get me some MBI points!

That is all…

Spawn #27 came back to my fishroom on 6/20/2014, as Mike Doty has opted to do another run of Lightnings with spawn #36 (update on that as of 6-30, there were only about 10 that made it from Spawn #35 – Mike had some hatching issues this time ’round).

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I took the opportunity to do a headcount on Spawn #27 as I released the group into the BRT – provided I didn’t make any mistakes, the rough split was 28 Lightning Maroons, and 24 White Stripe Maroons.  Out of those 24 White Stripes, I maybe only noticed 3 that had extra markings and would fall into the “Morse Code” notion.

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I should point out that Mike and I discussed his rearing methodologies at great length; you’ll recall that part of the reason for allowing him to rear batches was to see if he could do any better, and my own effort to learn from him and work in collaboration. Say what you will, but the bottom line is that Mike reared spawn #27 with what amounts to a 50% water change weekly.  I can guarantee I was nowhere near that on some runs.  Of course, that’s not the only difference involved here…his methodology was to drain the standalone BRT half way each week, and gradually fill it back up over the course of the week, and then repeat.

It seemed like a very manageable system, and frankly it should be obvious that good base maintenance will get you good results.  There are still some deformed fish, but if I have to be honest, I think he reared a superior batch than the first big one. I’m going to look into segregating them out, as well as stepping up the water changes overall, as that can only help produce superior fish. It’s interesting to note that the sizes do vary immensely within the group, whereas the group of 10 I had going from around the same time is more homogeneous in size and has more patterning, and is comparable in size to these.  It will take a lot of really specialized research to hone in on some of the variables in play, but I look forward to doing that if I’m able.

Mike’s routine is hardly surprising – my breeding of Angelfish relied strongly on 50% weekly water changes, and based on published recommendations, while I took 3-4 months to hit market size doing 50% weekly water changes on growout, if I had stepped it up to 50% daily water changes, I would have cut my growout time down to 6 week!  Think about that.

I’m a man of my word; Mike reared a good batch with Spawn #27, and tonight, new photos of the ORA Gold Nugget Maroon Clownfish in Rhinelander (LiveAquaria’s Diver’s Den) were posted.  The fish looked good, and being on sale from $499.99 to only $349.99, it was time to honor my end of the bargain.  So this fish….

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…is now Mike Doty’s and should be here on Tuesday morning.

I can’t say how blessed I am to have a fellow fish breeder who lives four blocks away and is willing to come feed babies on short notice….Mike I am always in your debt!  Now lets see what this throws when paired with a standard Gold Stripe Maroon! My prognostication – we get 100% Gold Flake types out of it…

 

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